Archive for November, 2008
AF Moose 1892 asked:
How much should I try to lower the price on a used 2003 Acura 3.2TL TypeS? And do I have to pay sales tax on the purchase? What if the seller insists that I pay the tax, does that mean he’s not being honest with me?
How much should I try to lower the price on a used 2003 Acura 3.2TL TypeS? And do I have to pay sales tax on the purchase? What if the seller insists that I pay the tax, does that mean he’s not being honest with me?
bad_banking asked:
I asked for a bank loan for a certain amount for a car, and gave the dealer a check for the difference. Then, it turns out the bank did the loan for the full price w/tax and everthing, and the dealer already cashed my check. I know people often give a downpayment out of pocket and then do a loan for the rest, so it seems like i could show the bank my app said a certain amount and fix it on that end.
However, is the dealer legally obligated to give my check amt back or do I have to hope he’ll be honest?
I asked for a bank loan for a certain amount for a car, and gave the dealer a check for the difference. Then, it turns out the bank did the loan for the full price w/tax and everthing, and the dealer already cashed my check. I know people often give a downpayment out of pocket and then do a loan for the rest, so it seems like i could show the bank my app said a certain amount and fix it on that end.
However, is the dealer legally obligated to give my check amt back or do I have to hope he’ll be honest?
anju asked:
Generally speaking, what a car dealer is willing to sell a car for depends a great deal on the supply and demand of that particular vehicle.
If there is a high demand for a certain car, or if the supply of that vehicle is low you can expect the dealer to hold the line on price. He’s not going to give you much of a discount. In some cases, when very popular new models come out and the supply is initially low, some car dealers will not sell the vehicle unless you are willing to pay above sticker price! .And guess what? There are always people willing to pay above sticker to get these new models!
On the other hand, if the demand for a particular vehicle is low, or there is a large supply of a model you should be able to get the dealer to give you a big discount. He’ll be anxious to sell down his inventory of that particular model.
You should check with a few different car dealers and get a feel for what they are willing to do. Don’t rush into anything. Go in with the attitude that you are expecting a big discount. Compare, and see what you can get out of them.
Do as much research on the internet as you can. Visit the car price quotes sites I have listed at: New Car Price Quotes. In addition to getting price quotes you can research all the different makes and models. Once you decide what you want to buy you’ll have to visit a car dealer to see and drive the type of car you’re interested in.
When negotiating for a vehicle only negotiate the selling price of the car. Don’t let the sales person talk you into negotiating a monthly payment or a trade-in allowance.Keep those items separate from the price negotiation. If you mix them together you will not get your best deal, because you will not know for sure what you are actually paying for the vehicle.
Regardless of whether you are buying a high line car or a cheap one it’s up to you to not let the sales person get the upper hand and take control of the situation. Don’t be pushed into anything. Let them know you are going to shop at other car dealers before you make your decision. Keep them honest and you’ll get the best deal possible.
Remember, when you’re shopping for a car you are in control of the whole process. The car dealer can’t make you do anything you don’t want to do. All you have to do if you are being pressured too much is to get up and leave.
Generally speaking, what a car dealer is willing to sell a car for depends a great deal on the supply and demand of that particular vehicle.
If there is a high demand for a certain car, or if the supply of that vehicle is low you can expect the dealer to hold the line on price. He’s not going to give you much of a discount. In some cases, when very popular new models come out and the supply is initially low, some car dealers will not sell the vehicle unless you are willing to pay above sticker price! .And guess what? There are always people willing to pay above sticker to get these new models!
On the other hand, if the demand for a particular vehicle is low, or there is a large supply of a model you should be able to get the dealer to give you a big discount. He’ll be anxious to sell down his inventory of that particular model.
You should check with a few different car dealers and get a feel for what they are willing to do. Don’t rush into anything. Go in with the attitude that you are expecting a big discount. Compare, and see what you can get out of them.
Do as much research on the internet as you can. Visit the car price quotes sites I have listed at: New Car Price Quotes. In addition to getting price quotes you can research all the different makes and models. Once you decide what you want to buy you’ll have to visit a car dealer to see and drive the type of car you’re interested in.
When negotiating for a vehicle only negotiate the selling price of the car. Don’t let the sales person talk you into negotiating a monthly payment or a trade-in allowance.Keep those items separate from the price negotiation. If you mix them together you will not get your best deal, because you will not know for sure what you are actually paying for the vehicle.
Regardless of whether you are buying a high line car or a cheap one it’s up to you to not let the sales person get the upper hand and take control of the situation. Don’t be pushed into anything. Let them know you are going to shop at other car dealers before you make your decision. Keep them honest and you’ll get the best deal possible.
Remember, when you’re shopping for a car you are in control of the whole process. The car dealer can’t make you do anything you don’t want to do. All you have to do if you are being pressured too much is to get up and leave.
Benard Worseley asked:
Normal 0 7.8 pt 0 2 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4
New car dealer’s is the safest place to buy a used car because they tend to make sure that their pre-owned cars are in excellent condition. They, however, tend to sell it expensively.
Different from other Car dealers in Sydney, Peter Warren Dodge sells affordable and quality used Dodge, not to mention other kinds of vehicle. Peter Warren Dodge even encourages their customers to bring along a mechanic or a person whom you know to have extensive knowledge about cars to double check their used Dodge and other used vehicles for any damages. Peter Warren Dodge is confident you won’t find a riddled vehicle in their possession. Peter Warren Dodge makes sure that they only get an excellent condition pre-owned Dodge for their customers who, despite being on a tight budget, will never forsake quality.
People who are thinking of buying a used car should do so from a dealer who has been in the vicinity for a long period of time. Dealers who had already established a clientele are most likely honest and reliable dealers who really care about their customers.
In addition to finding reputable dealers, people who want a used Dodge or any other used vehicle for that matter should take time to research regarding cars that are considered to be reliable and sturdy. Though Dodge vehicles have proven their quality a long time ago, there are still other kinds of vehicle out there which are considered to be top of the line primarily because of quality.
Peter Warren Dodge is a well known car dealer in Australia specializing in quality used Dodge as well as other make and model of vehicles.
Normal 0 7.8 pt 0 2 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4
New car dealer’s is the safest place to buy a used car because they tend to make sure that their pre-owned cars are in excellent condition. They, however, tend to sell it expensively.
Different from other Car dealers in Sydney, Peter Warren Dodge sells affordable and quality used Dodge, not to mention other kinds of vehicle. Peter Warren Dodge even encourages their customers to bring along a mechanic or a person whom you know to have extensive knowledge about cars to double check their used Dodge and other used vehicles for any damages. Peter Warren Dodge is confident you won’t find a riddled vehicle in their possession. Peter Warren Dodge makes sure that they only get an excellent condition pre-owned Dodge for their customers who, despite being on a tight budget, will never forsake quality.
People who are thinking of buying a used car should do so from a dealer who has been in the vicinity for a long period of time. Dealers who had already established a clientele are most likely honest and reliable dealers who really care about their customers.
In addition to finding reputable dealers, people who want a used Dodge or any other used vehicle for that matter should take time to research regarding cars that are considered to be reliable and sturdy. Though Dodge vehicles have proven their quality a long time ago, there are still other kinds of vehicle out there which are considered to be top of the line primarily because of quality.
Peter Warren Dodge is a well known car dealer in Australia specializing in quality used Dodge as well as other make and model of vehicles.
Jon Arnold asked:
Browsing for a new auto while your old one is just about to go belly up is not anyone’s idea of a blast. It’s not deciding what kind of vehicle you need that’s the trouble. Most people are able to consider seriously and be honest regarding what type of car they can afford to have. They will happily resolve to get a sedan or SUV, even if they aspire to having a foreign sports car that would make James Bond envious.
However, your credit may become a showstopper. If you have less than outstanding credit, automobile dealers can brand you, making you feel like a second class citizen. They cannot or don’t want to take the risk of selling you the car you really can afford and need, so they guide you towards cheaper, less desirable models. The sales agents have learned to evaluate people from a financial perspective, surprisingly accurately, and they will lean towards the easier sale instead of one where significant effort will be involved to get your financing approved, if it can be done at all.
Hardly anyone has perfect credit these days. Although not at all true, the misconception is that one’s credit score is what it is and there is little one can do about it. Nothing could be further from the truth and the savvy consumer knows that, but how does that help you now? Unless your credit is really bad, you having missed a couple payments on your Visa card a couple years ago due to a financial setback is not going to prevent you from getting approved for a car loan. Even if that was consistent for a period of time because you got laid off from your job or had some unexpectedly high medical bills, you’ve managed to get yourself back on track now, and from your perspective, it’s a whole new ball game. The key in finding the right car financing is to find the lenders who will agree that you are in a whole new position than you were a few years ago when you were having financial problems.
This is where using an online auto loan quote can be advantageous to you. You see, the credit reporting agencies have a memory like an elephant, and they will remember those payments you missed a few years ago, right down to the nitty gritty details. That period of your life is behind you and you do not care to relive it, so you may want to look at other car financing and car loan options that are less traditional than your bank or credit union.
You need to be real with yourself before you even go to the dealership and realistically determine how much you can afford to spend in car payments. Do not stretch your budget to the limit where you need to cut some necessities, because then you will start to resent that car over time. Don’t forget to include the difference in the cost of car insurance over what you pay for car insurance now, as well as the difference in gas mileage from your current car. Also remember that cars do not run on wishes or hope, so you need to budget a maintenance fund also for consumable items such as tires, oil chances, wiper blades, etc, none of which are typically covered under any warranty.
Once you have that figure in mind, then you are ready to start shopping. If you cannot bring yourself to purchase a sedan instead of that sports car right now, then perhaps you just need to put more band aids on your current car to keep it running a little longer. You don’t want to feel like you had to “settle” for something that you are going to be making payments on for the next few years.
The most important part of the whole car purchasing experience is finding the right auto loan and financing terms. If you are buying a new car and your credit score allows it, you may be offered really great financing options from the dealer via the manufacturer. Sometimes this can be zero percent interest or under 2% interest, which will not be matched by your bank or even most online lenders. But if you do not qualify for that, all is not lost.
Your local bank or credit union may offer an attractive rate but you need to find the BEST rate, because that little bit of time spent shopping for your financing can mean literally hundreds of dollars in your pocket. Online car loans deals can frequently be much better than traditional lending sources and are well worth your time to get a quote a compare. Online auto loan lenders have much less overhead than their brick and mortar counterparts, and they almost always pass those savings on to you, the consumer. They are very anxious to get your business, and are therefore also much more willing to overlook some minor blemishes on your credit report.
Browsing for a new auto while your old one is just about to go belly up is not anyone’s idea of a blast. It’s not deciding what kind of vehicle you need that’s the trouble. Most people are able to consider seriously and be honest regarding what type of car they can afford to have. They will happily resolve to get a sedan or SUV, even if they aspire to having a foreign sports car that would make James Bond envious.
However, your credit may become a showstopper. If you have less than outstanding credit, automobile dealers can brand you, making you feel like a second class citizen. They cannot or don’t want to take the risk of selling you the car you really can afford and need, so they guide you towards cheaper, less desirable models. The sales agents have learned to evaluate people from a financial perspective, surprisingly accurately, and they will lean towards the easier sale instead of one where significant effort will be involved to get your financing approved, if it can be done at all.
Hardly anyone has perfect credit these days. Although not at all true, the misconception is that one’s credit score is what it is and there is little one can do about it. Nothing could be further from the truth and the savvy consumer knows that, but how does that help you now? Unless your credit is really bad, you having missed a couple payments on your Visa card a couple years ago due to a financial setback is not going to prevent you from getting approved for a car loan. Even if that was consistent for a period of time because you got laid off from your job or had some unexpectedly high medical bills, you’ve managed to get yourself back on track now, and from your perspective, it’s a whole new ball game. The key in finding the right car financing is to find the lenders who will agree that you are in a whole new position than you were a few years ago when you were having financial problems.
This is where using an online auto loan quote can be advantageous to you. You see, the credit reporting agencies have a memory like an elephant, and they will remember those payments you missed a few years ago, right down to the nitty gritty details. That period of your life is behind you and you do not care to relive it, so you may want to look at other car financing and car loan options that are less traditional than your bank or credit union.
You need to be real with yourself before you even go to the dealership and realistically determine how much you can afford to spend in car payments. Do not stretch your budget to the limit where you need to cut some necessities, because then you will start to resent that car over time. Don’t forget to include the difference in the cost of car insurance over what you pay for car insurance now, as well as the difference in gas mileage from your current car. Also remember that cars do not run on wishes or hope, so you need to budget a maintenance fund also for consumable items such as tires, oil chances, wiper blades, etc, none of which are typically covered under any warranty.
Once you have that figure in mind, then you are ready to start shopping. If you cannot bring yourself to purchase a sedan instead of that sports car right now, then perhaps you just need to put more band aids on your current car to keep it running a little longer. You don’t want to feel like you had to “settle” for something that you are going to be making payments on for the next few years.
The most important part of the whole car purchasing experience is finding the right auto loan and financing terms. If you are buying a new car and your credit score allows it, you may be offered really great financing options from the dealer via the manufacturer. Sometimes this can be zero percent interest or under 2% interest, which will not be matched by your bank or even most online lenders. But if you do not qualify for that, all is not lost.
Your local bank or credit union may offer an attractive rate but you need to find the BEST rate, because that little bit of time spent shopping for your financing can mean literally hundreds of dollars in your pocket. Online car loans deals can frequently be much better than traditional lending sources and are well worth your time to get a quote a compare. Online auto loan lenders have much less overhead than their brick and mortar counterparts, and they almost always pass those savings on to you, the consumer. They are very anxious to get your business, and are therefore also much more willing to overlook some minor blemishes on your credit report.
beachboy asked:
As I said, the car is paid off and I have the title of the car in my possession. I found an honest, willing local buyer who is going to pay cash for the vehicle.
As I said, the car is paid off and I have the title of the car in my possession. I found an honest, willing local buyer who is going to pay cash for the vehicle.
So, now what?
Do I just write up a simple bill of sale? What do I need to put on it? Is there a good, free copy available on the web? How do I transfer the title? What are the steps, do we sign the bill of sale, make the cash transaction, then transfer the title?
Any other kind of fraud I should watch out for when accepting cash? Other then it being counterfeit, that is?
I live in South Carolina, by the way.
So, you’re saying I should take the seller to the dealership while he’s with me? How long does transferring the title take?
A little more input is appreciated.
I can’t transfer the title at a title office, the buyer is going to register the car in the state next to mine.
So, how do I do the title transfer now?
Levi Quinn asked:
Into every life some car payments must fall. No matter what you do, you will have to purchase at least three or four cars over the course of your life, and it will be expensive no matter how you look at it. The question that often crosses people’s minds as they enter this process is, “Should I buy a new car?”
When you buy a new car, you aren’t purchasing someone else’s problems. You know that you aren’t getting a car that was in a terrible, axle-bending wreck that has been disguised with good bodywork. Of course, some prestige does come along with having a shiny new Hotrod or a sleek businesslike automobile. There is the pleasure that comes from climbing into all that new-car smell, knowing that no soft drink was ever spilled on the seats and that everything works perfectly.
Other pros of buying a new car include a full warranty and the decreased likelihood that something major will go wrong with the car in the near future – and even the more distant future. You may also have an easier time negotiating a price you like with the dealer or profit from a manufacturer’s special.
If the money in your bank account is important to you, most of these “pros” are simply a smoke screen.
Even though a new car has never had an owner, that doesn’t mean it is free of problems. Lemons come off the factory line every day, and it is impossible to tell if you are about to purchase one. In addition, you have no way of knowing how honest the new car salesperson is being with you, any more than you can know how honest the used car salesperson or the used car’s owner is being with you. Purchasing a car is a gamble, whether you are buying old or new.
You cannot escape the fact that the car for which you will be forking over payments will be new only until you drive it off the lot. Any financial expert in the world will tell you that a new car is a liability because it depreciates in value the minute you drive away from the dealer. You will not be able to make money on it at resale. You will only lose money on a new car because of depreciation, astronomical interest-bearing monthly payments that severely bloat the final cost of the automobile, and of course, your insurance rates.
Look at it like this. In 2007, you purchase a 2008 Prism. Your friend admires your car, but continues to drive his old Ford. In 2010, that friend decides it’s time for him to ditch the Ford for a “new” car and purchases his very own 2008 Prism – used. The vehicle is two years old. Your car certainly isn’t the new car you bought and are paying for – it too is two years old. However, your friend is now driving essentially the same car for a much lower monthly payment and a lower insurance bill.
The only people who really benefit from the sale of a new car are the new car salespersons.
Into every life some car payments must fall. No matter what you do, you will have to purchase at least three or four cars over the course of your life, and it will be expensive no matter how you look at it. The question that often crosses people’s minds as they enter this process is, “Should I buy a new car?”
When you buy a new car, you aren’t purchasing someone else’s problems. You know that you aren’t getting a car that was in a terrible, axle-bending wreck that has been disguised with good bodywork. Of course, some prestige does come along with having a shiny new Hotrod or a sleek businesslike automobile. There is the pleasure that comes from climbing into all that new-car smell, knowing that no soft drink was ever spilled on the seats and that everything works perfectly.
Other pros of buying a new car include a full warranty and the decreased likelihood that something major will go wrong with the car in the near future – and even the more distant future. You may also have an easier time negotiating a price you like with the dealer or profit from a manufacturer’s special.
If the money in your bank account is important to you, most of these “pros” are simply a smoke screen.
Even though a new car has never had an owner, that doesn’t mean it is free of problems. Lemons come off the factory line every day, and it is impossible to tell if you are about to purchase one. In addition, you have no way of knowing how honest the new car salesperson is being with you, any more than you can know how honest the used car salesperson or the used car’s owner is being with you. Purchasing a car is a gamble, whether you are buying old or new.
You cannot escape the fact that the car for which you will be forking over payments will be new only until you drive it off the lot. Any financial expert in the world will tell you that a new car is a liability because it depreciates in value the minute you drive away from the dealer. You will not be able to make money on it at resale. You will only lose money on a new car because of depreciation, astronomical interest-bearing monthly payments that severely bloat the final cost of the automobile, and of course, your insurance rates.
Look at it like this. In 2007, you purchase a 2008 Prism. Your friend admires your car, but continues to drive his old Ford. In 2010, that friend decides it’s time for him to ditch the Ford for a “new” car and purchases his very own 2008 Prism – used. The vehicle is two years old. Your car certainly isn’t the new car you bought and are paying for – it too is two years old. However, your friend is now driving essentially the same car for a much lower monthly payment and a lower insurance bill.
The only people who really benefit from the sale of a new car are the new car salespersons.
Michael Thornessen asked:
Boy, these people are something special!
You know, while researching the cars, I read a lot about dealing with car dealers. People generally have a negative attitude towards them and the whole car buying experience, and you can find tons of information on how to avoid their scams, how to lower the price, how to negotiate with them, what to tell them, etc, etc. An excellent website to inform yourself on all aspects of car buying is Car Buying Tips: (http://www.carbuyingtips.com/). Now with all the great info and details I learned from various sources, I still thought that generally the prevailing attitude is not realistic. I mean, you almost get a feeling that if you pay anything more than a factory price, you made a bad deal. You can certainly succeed in lowering the price apparently to a large extent, but it is the fact that the dealers have to make money too. Ok, sometimes just selling the car, e.g. to meet their projected numbers, is beneficial to them, and they might give away even the whole of their profit for that sake. But come on, I can consider such situation just a crazy luck, not my goal! Anyway, I think that the current craze about “beating” those prices down to the floor is just as unrealistic and aggressive as the dealer’s craze to take as much money from you as possible.
However, after this buying experience, I lost pretty much any respect and sympathy for the dealers. And I will always advise anyone never to become one. Of course some of them were great examples of normal and pleasant behaviour, but unfortunately I must say that most of them have taken the activity of deceit and aggressiveness to such extent that for an honest and well meaning man the idea of going to a dealership must be repugnant. I very quickly got such a strong feeling of insecurity about everything I was told by them. I think everything was a lie, smaller or bigger. A lot of what I’ve heard I don’t believe, and none of it I trust.
Here are some of the examples, more or less funny, from my recent experience:
Systematic approach
I enter a dealership, with the intention of exploring a car that really caught my attention simply by offering all of the basic features I wanted. So I wanted to see it, test drive it, and ask a couple of questions. So I ask the dealer: “I’ve read that the crash test scores for this model are not that good, most are graded 3 out of 5. Now, I know that there are different tests, and you can’t judge simply by the grade. Do you know more details about those tests and the scores? What is tested exactly, and how did they score the cars?”
The answer was: “Yes, yes I know, the scores are not the best possible. I know. But you know — what do they mean really? (And I’m thinking — yes, that is exactly what I asked) You see, a grade of 3 is really not that bad. It’s almost like 4. What is the difference? Almost nothing let me tell you. And also, all of that means something only in most severe crashes!!”
Well, no kidding!! What a thorough explanation. Now I understand and my worries are gone. And what a relief. So, if a car is simply parked on a lot, I shouldn’t worry that it will suddenly open the hood and hit me right in the face!
Bonding
A question occurred to me about a car, and I decided to drop by a dealership to ask. My visit was about 10 minutes long — of course we exchanged numbers, I got the brochure and usual stuff. Tomorrow morning, my cell phone rings, I answer and I get this:
- “Hey Michael, Jord here from the dealership.”
- “Hey Jord, how are you, what’s up?” (I thought he might have just gotten some good used car)
- “Nothing, nothing…just wanted to see how are you.”
Huh… If this doesn’t sound as a start of a beautiful friendship I don’t know what does!
Then he goes on:
- “So have you made a decision on which car you want?”
- “No, not really, not yet. I told you I’ll need some time, and I’m not rushing really.”
- “Ok, tell me, what’s blocking it? Can I help?”
Man, of course you can! Go do something else instead of asking me questions…
Landing on all four whatever happens
I wasn’t sure about a size of a trunk of one of the models, so on my visit to the dealerships I brought couple of boxes and a cart that I use often to see how they fit into the trunk. Now this was one of the smaller cars, so I wasn’t sure about the trunk size. And I tell the dealer what I’d like to do and he says no problem. So I take out the stuff and he laughs:
- “C’mooon, how can you doubt it — that will fit without a problem. Don’t worry!!”
- “Wait, wait, let me try, I know what I’m talking about.”
And then I try, and he tries, but it doesn’t go so easy — the cart is a bit long and the boxes a bit high. Separately they go in no problem, but together, not that easy. Finally, he laughs again and remarks:
- “And you really thought ALL OF THAT will fit into this trunk??!!”
Wha…??
Get all the money you can
I receive a long talk describing how I should buy the replacement insurance. And the more expensive one (“better” in the jargon), which covers you for a longer time and gives you the value of the new car, rather the amount that you paid. Ok, that is a fine product. Now I also get a long description on how I should absolutely buy a VIN engraving package where they engrave the VIN on all windshields so that the thieves are less likely to steal it (they can’t sell the windshields for parts). It’s about $300. Well, I gave both of these things a good thought, but tomorrow I realized a simple thing: Why do I need two protections? If I get the replacement insurance, and if they are going to give me a new car if mine is stolen, why would I then protect it even more?? Damn, I should also probably buy two cars in case one is stolen after all.
And on top of that, I found on the internet that the engraving kit, very simple to use and apply, can be bought for mere $20.
Get all the money you can — again
This one is well-known, and usually titled as a “dealer scam”, but I decided I put it here anyways just as another example.
So I finally decide to buy the car and I arrive to the dealership at around 6:00pm. I expect the process to last about an hour. However, little thing here and there and I end up at the dealership for four hours. I think ok, nobody’s fault, there are simply a lot of things to do and a lot of people to involve — the dealer, finance guy, insurance girl, then the finance guy again, then the manager because there was an error, etc. So, I get the contract with all the figures there, and everything looks fine: all the figures match almost perfectly to mine that I calculated before. Except one thing — $900 of loan life insurance. So I ask:
- “Why is it there? Is that mandatory?”
- “Well, we made such an application to Company’s Finance.”
- “Ok, but is it mandatory?”
- “We could reapply and see what happens — if you have life insurance elsewhere.”
Now, you see, I am not too easy to confuse, but it was late and I didn’t want to repeat the whole process again, so I’m thinking: “Ok, I’m going to think about it tomorrow.” And I let it by. Now good thing was that I had the contract with me (I had to take it home for my wife to sign), so I wasn’t too worried.
Anyhow, in the morning I realize that not only it is not mandatory to have the insurance and that I definitely do not need life insurance elsewhere, but another application without it will certainly go through. And, at that point I sincerely doubted that they need to make another application at all. So I get really angry and I go there and I get the exact same answer again. So I say:
- “Let’s apply again; I am sure the application will go trough. I simply don’t want it and I never wanted it and I never asked for it. And if it doesn’t we’ll see then what we do.”
And she does the paperwork, and seeing me irritated remarks: “Don’t worry I’m sure it will go trough.”
Of course it will — and it does.
Get on customer’s side — even if you overdo it
One of the dealers was affirming every little thing I said. It got funny and a bit annoying:
He thought that the features I wanted are absolutely the only important features in the car.
He was also in computer business just a few years ago.
The funniest was when we discussed payment options. He told me that leasing is a better option if I want to change the car every couple of years. So I say:
- “You know, I am more the other type of buyer, at least so far. I drive one car for years before I buy a new one, so I probably won’t go with the lease.”
- “I understand, I completely understand. You know, the worst part of the auto business for me is that you simply have to change the car every 1-2 years. I hate that. If I wasn’t selling cars, I would do the same as you.”
Well, this really made me feel like home. C’mon guys, we just met and will probably never see each other again; don’t do these things.
Advertise what you have
This one was not really on the negative side, it was just funny. I went to Subaru and dealers there were actually very cool. They were very cooperative, and without the aggressive edge. And they never called me to push or ask whether I’ve made a decision. They also have a great program where you can take the car for 24hr test drive. I had really a good experience with them.
Anyhow, I told this dealer that I know that their cars use specific technology in their engine that is different from all other cars, and that repairs can be expensive. And he says:
- “Yeah, it’s so called Boxer engine where pistons are opposed horizontally instead of vertically. But we are not the only ones to use it… Porsche uses it — you know Porsche Boxster. … And some smaller planes.”
Well, that much for the affordable repairs…
Then he also added that it’s an old technology that has been well perfected so far and that I shouldn’t worry really, which was a bit more reassuring.
Always fish for customer’s weak spots — even in the dark
Honda was giving rebate and they advertised it everywhere: that was very important sales pitch. Now I come to a dealership, and one of the first things the guy tells me is:
“You know, I’ll tell you one thing: we will give you a good rebate, and it’s Honda’s rebate but most of the dealers won’t even mention it.”
He made it as if he is letting me know a secret, and not only that it isn’t, but it’s all over radio, their website, everywhere. But I might have been uninformed and careless and would think that I’m getting a special deal.
Lie like there’s no tomorrow and hope you don’t get caught
I was quite close to buying a car so I called some dealerships inquiring whether they have a certain model and the color on the lot. I told them I don’t want the car to be brought from some other dealership. I want to see the car and get the one I saw. This is because I don’t want to get into whole new set of issues and questions. For example, one dealer told me that they charge extra delivery fee if they bring the car from other dealership, which is by the way ridiculous and perhaps deserves story on its own. It can also happen that the car that arrives is different in some detail than what you wanted, and you already signed the papers. Etc.
So I made sure they know what I want, and then came to one of the dealerships. We chat a bit and then I say:
- “So let me see the car.”
- “Oh, I was afraid you were gonna ask me that. I really don’t know exactly where the car is.”
I laugh: “But I told you I want to see the car before I buy it.”
- “Oh, don’t worry — it’s here, I’m just not sure where.”
- “Ok, I’ll go outside and look for it.”
- “But our lots are really big.”
- “I don’t mind, I have the time.”
- “But they are not really all here — we have two lots a few blocks away.”
I just don’t like arguing that much — in cases like these I give up and simply walk away.
A good guy
The positive highlight was a young dealer for which I could quickly tell that he is not (yet) turned his abilities into a deceitful routine — he even gets confused a bit when I ask him a stupid question. To me that is the normal reaction. And when I asked him what he drives, he said: “an old Volvo, you know it’s a really good car.” I am really sorry that cars he was selling were not suitable for me — I would have been very happy to buy one from him. And I didn’t even feel like negotiation with him at all.
—————————————————————————–
Read the rest on following pages:
Part One: Why and What?
Part Two: How?
Part Three: Models and Makes
Boy, these people are something special!
You know, while researching the cars, I read a lot about dealing with car dealers. People generally have a negative attitude towards them and the whole car buying experience, and you can find tons of information on how to avoid their scams, how to lower the price, how to negotiate with them, what to tell them, etc, etc. An excellent website to inform yourself on all aspects of car buying is Car Buying Tips: (http://www.carbuyingtips.com/). Now with all the great info and details I learned from various sources, I still thought that generally the prevailing attitude is not realistic. I mean, you almost get a feeling that if you pay anything more than a factory price, you made a bad deal. You can certainly succeed in lowering the price apparently to a large extent, but it is the fact that the dealers have to make money too. Ok, sometimes just selling the car, e.g. to meet their projected numbers, is beneficial to them, and they might give away even the whole of their profit for that sake. But come on, I can consider such situation just a crazy luck, not my goal! Anyway, I think that the current craze about “beating” those prices down to the floor is just as unrealistic and aggressive as the dealer’s craze to take as much money from you as possible.
However, after this buying experience, I lost pretty much any respect and sympathy for the dealers. And I will always advise anyone never to become one. Of course some of them were great examples of normal and pleasant behaviour, but unfortunately I must say that most of them have taken the activity of deceit and aggressiveness to such extent that for an honest and well meaning man the idea of going to a dealership must be repugnant. I very quickly got such a strong feeling of insecurity about everything I was told by them. I think everything was a lie, smaller or bigger. A lot of what I’ve heard I don’t believe, and none of it I trust.
Here are some of the examples, more or less funny, from my recent experience:
Systematic approach
I enter a dealership, with the intention of exploring a car that really caught my attention simply by offering all of the basic features I wanted. So I wanted to see it, test drive it, and ask a couple of questions. So I ask the dealer: “I’ve read that the crash test scores for this model are not that good, most are graded 3 out of 5. Now, I know that there are different tests, and you can’t judge simply by the grade. Do you know more details about those tests and the scores? What is tested exactly, and how did they score the cars?”
The answer was: “Yes, yes I know, the scores are not the best possible. I know. But you know — what do they mean really? (And I’m thinking — yes, that is exactly what I asked) You see, a grade of 3 is really not that bad. It’s almost like 4. What is the difference? Almost nothing let me tell you. And also, all of that means something only in most severe crashes!!”
Well, no kidding!! What a thorough explanation. Now I understand and my worries are gone. And what a relief. So, if a car is simply parked on a lot, I shouldn’t worry that it will suddenly open the hood and hit me right in the face!
Bonding
A question occurred to me about a car, and I decided to drop by a dealership to ask. My visit was about 10 minutes long — of course we exchanged numbers, I got the brochure and usual stuff. Tomorrow morning, my cell phone rings, I answer and I get this:
- “Hey Michael, Jord here from the dealership.”
- “Hey Jord, how are you, what’s up?” (I thought he might have just gotten some good used car)
- “Nothing, nothing…just wanted to see how are you.”
Huh… If this doesn’t sound as a start of a beautiful friendship I don’t know what does!
Then he goes on:
- “So have you made a decision on which car you want?”
- “No, not really, not yet. I told you I’ll need some time, and I’m not rushing really.”
- “Ok, tell me, what’s blocking it? Can I help?”
Man, of course you can! Go do something else instead of asking me questions…
Landing on all four whatever happens
I wasn’t sure about a size of a trunk of one of the models, so on my visit to the dealerships I brought couple of boxes and a cart that I use often to see how they fit into the trunk. Now this was one of the smaller cars, so I wasn’t sure about the trunk size. And I tell the dealer what I’d like to do and he says no problem. So I take out the stuff and he laughs:
- “C’mooon, how can you doubt it — that will fit without a problem. Don’t worry!!”
- “Wait, wait, let me try, I know what I’m talking about.”
And then I try, and he tries, but it doesn’t go so easy — the cart is a bit long and the boxes a bit high. Separately they go in no problem, but together, not that easy. Finally, he laughs again and remarks:
- “And you really thought ALL OF THAT will fit into this trunk??!!”
Wha…??
Get all the money you can
I receive a long talk describing how I should buy the replacement insurance. And the more expensive one (“better” in the jargon), which covers you for a longer time and gives you the value of the new car, rather the amount that you paid. Ok, that is a fine product. Now I also get a long description on how I should absolutely buy a VIN engraving package where they engrave the VIN on all windshields so that the thieves are less likely to steal it (they can’t sell the windshields for parts). It’s about $300. Well, I gave both of these things a good thought, but tomorrow I realized a simple thing: Why do I need two protections? If I get the replacement insurance, and if they are going to give me a new car if mine is stolen, why would I then protect it even more?? Damn, I should also probably buy two cars in case one is stolen after all.
And on top of that, I found on the internet that the engraving kit, very simple to use and apply, can be bought for mere $20.
Get all the money you can — again
This one is well-known, and usually titled as a “dealer scam”, but I decided I put it here anyways just as another example.
So I finally decide to buy the car and I arrive to the dealership at around 6:00pm. I expect the process to last about an hour. However, little thing here and there and I end up at the dealership for four hours. I think ok, nobody’s fault, there are simply a lot of things to do and a lot of people to involve — the dealer, finance guy, insurance girl, then the finance guy again, then the manager because there was an error, etc. So, I get the contract with all the figures there, and everything looks fine: all the figures match almost perfectly to mine that I calculated before. Except one thing — $900 of loan life insurance. So I ask:
- “Why is it there? Is that mandatory?”
- “Well, we made such an application to Company’s Finance.”
- “Ok, but is it mandatory?”
- “We could reapply and see what happens — if you have life insurance elsewhere.”
Now, you see, I am not too easy to confuse, but it was late and I didn’t want to repeat the whole process again, so I’m thinking: “Ok, I’m going to think about it tomorrow.” And I let it by. Now good thing was that I had the contract with me (I had to take it home for my wife to sign), so I wasn’t too worried.
Anyhow, in the morning I realize that not only it is not mandatory to have the insurance and that I definitely do not need life insurance elsewhere, but another application without it will certainly go through. And, at that point I sincerely doubted that they need to make another application at all. So I get really angry and I go there and I get the exact same answer again. So I say:
- “Let’s apply again; I am sure the application will go trough. I simply don’t want it and I never wanted it and I never asked for it. And if it doesn’t we’ll see then what we do.”
And she does the paperwork, and seeing me irritated remarks: “Don’t worry I’m sure it will go trough.”
Of course it will — and it does.
Get on customer’s side — even if you overdo it
One of the dealers was affirming every little thing I said. It got funny and a bit annoying:
He thought that the features I wanted are absolutely the only important features in the car.
He was also in computer business just a few years ago.
The funniest was when we discussed payment options. He told me that leasing is a better option if I want to change the car every couple of years. So I say:
- “You know, I am more the other type of buyer, at least so far. I drive one car for years before I buy a new one, so I probably won’t go with the lease.”
- “I understand, I completely understand. You know, the worst part of the auto business for me is that you simply have to change the car every 1-2 years. I hate that. If I wasn’t selling cars, I would do the same as you.”
Well, this really made me feel like home. C’mon guys, we just met and will probably never see each other again; don’t do these things.
Advertise what you have
This one was not really on the negative side, it was just funny. I went to Subaru and dealers there were actually very cool. They were very cooperative, and without the aggressive edge. And they never called me to push or ask whether I’ve made a decision. They also have a great program where you can take the car for 24hr test drive. I had really a good experience with them.
Anyhow, I told this dealer that I know that their cars use specific technology in their engine that is different from all other cars, and that repairs can be expensive. And he says:
- “Yeah, it’s so called Boxer engine where pistons are opposed horizontally instead of vertically. But we are not the only ones to use it… Porsche uses it — you know Porsche Boxster. … And some smaller planes.”
Well, that much for the affordable repairs…
Then he also added that it’s an old technology that has been well perfected so far and that I shouldn’t worry really, which was a bit more reassuring.
Always fish for customer’s weak spots — even in the dark
Honda was giving rebate and they advertised it everywhere: that was very important sales pitch. Now I come to a dealership, and one of the first things the guy tells me is:
“You know, I’ll tell you one thing: we will give you a good rebate, and it’s Honda’s rebate but most of the dealers won’t even mention it.”
He made it as if he is letting me know a secret, and not only that it isn’t, but it’s all over radio, their website, everywhere. But I might have been uninformed and careless and would think that I’m getting a special deal.
Lie like there’s no tomorrow and hope you don’t get caught
I was quite close to buying a car so I called some dealerships inquiring whether they have a certain model and the color on the lot. I told them I don’t want the car to be brought from some other dealership. I want to see the car and get the one I saw. This is because I don’t want to get into whole new set of issues and questions. For example, one dealer told me that they charge extra delivery fee if they bring the car from other dealership, which is by the way ridiculous and perhaps deserves story on its own. It can also happen that the car that arrives is different in some detail than what you wanted, and you already signed the papers. Etc.
So I made sure they know what I want, and then came to one of the dealerships. We chat a bit and then I say:
- “So let me see the car.”
- “Oh, I was afraid you were gonna ask me that. I really don’t know exactly where the car is.”
I laugh: “But I told you I want to see the car before I buy it.”
- “Oh, don’t worry — it’s here, I’m just not sure where.”
- “Ok, I’ll go outside and look for it.”
- “But our lots are really big.”
- “I don’t mind, I have the time.”
- “But they are not really all here — we have two lots a few blocks away.”
I just don’t like arguing that much — in cases like these I give up and simply walk away.
A good guy
The positive highlight was a young dealer for which I could quickly tell that he is not (yet) turned his abilities into a deceitful routine — he even gets confused a bit when I ask him a stupid question. To me that is the normal reaction. And when I asked him what he drives, he said: “an old Volvo, you know it’s a really good car.” I am really sorry that cars he was selling were not suitable for me — I would have been very happy to buy one from him. And I didn’t even feel like negotiation with him at all.
—————————————————————————–
Read the rest on following pages:
Part One: Why and What?
Part Two: How?
Part Three: Models and Makes
Phoenix Delray asked:
When it comes to selling a used car via an online classified ad, you have the opportunity to reach a much larger audience than you would with traditional advertising methods. If you have never sold with this method, or if you feel that your last sale could have gone better, here are some tips to keep in mind that will help ensure a successful used car sale.
The first thing to do is to establish the value of your used car, and the best way to do this is to consult a car values book, and other existing online classified car ads with similar vehicles. You may also consider taking your car to a lot to see what a dealer would offer, and then incorporate all of this information into the price that you include in your ad.
Next, be sure to list the body style, model, and year of your used car, as well as the engine size, color, and mileage. Honesty really is the best policy, and if your car has some less than desirable qualities, like cosmetic dings or rust, be sure to emphasize the positive to offset these negative descriptions. Phrases such as one owner, fuel economy, well maintained, and low mileage stand out to ad readers more than comments about imperfections that can be easily fixed.
After you have determined a price and written an effective ad, the next step is to prepare your vehicle for sale. Have your car professionally cleaned and detailed, and instead of spending money on major repairs, which will likely cost you more than the price that you will receive for the car, plan on being honest about the condition of your car, both in the ad and in person.
Once your ad is posted and your car is ready, it is time to wait for the calls and email inquiries to start rolling in. Be sure to give honest answers to questions, and make an appointment for a specific time to show the car. If the prospective buyer is late or does not show up, do not feel obligated to wait or hold the car for them, just move on to the next person. Always check the title transfer procedures and requirements for your state before you transfer physical ownership of the car, and always demand payment in cash or by certified check to protect your interests.
Online classified ads, when used correctly, can be powerful selling tools, so use yours wisely, following the above tips, and you will be well on your way to a successful sale.
When it comes to selling a used car via an online classified ad, you have the opportunity to reach a much larger audience than you would with traditional advertising methods. If you have never sold with this method, or if you feel that your last sale could have gone better, here are some tips to keep in mind that will help ensure a successful used car sale.
The first thing to do is to establish the value of your used car, and the best way to do this is to consult a car values book, and other existing online classified car ads with similar vehicles. You may also consider taking your car to a lot to see what a dealer would offer, and then incorporate all of this information into the price that you include in your ad.
Next, be sure to list the body style, model, and year of your used car, as well as the engine size, color, and mileage. Honesty really is the best policy, and if your car has some less than desirable qualities, like cosmetic dings or rust, be sure to emphasize the positive to offset these negative descriptions. Phrases such as one owner, fuel economy, well maintained, and low mileage stand out to ad readers more than comments about imperfections that can be easily fixed.
After you have determined a price and written an effective ad, the next step is to prepare your vehicle for sale. Have your car professionally cleaned and detailed, and instead of spending money on major repairs, which will likely cost you more than the price that you will receive for the car, plan on being honest about the condition of your car, both in the ad and in person.
Once your ad is posted and your car is ready, it is time to wait for the calls and email inquiries to start rolling in. Be sure to give honest answers to questions, and make an appointment for a specific time to show the car. If the prospective buyer is late or does not show up, do not feel obligated to wait or hold the car for them, just move on to the next person. Always check the title transfer procedures and requirements for your state before you transfer physical ownership of the car, and always demand payment in cash or by certified check to protect your interests.
Online classified ads, when used correctly, can be powerful selling tools, so use yours wisely, following the above tips, and you will be well on your way to a successful sale.
Peter Robinson asked:
Overheard on car lots every single day, all across this great land:
Sales Manager: ” Where did those people go?” Salesperson: ” Which people?” SM: ” Those people that were back there checking out the (anycar).” SP: ” Oh, they said they were just looking.” SM: “Really. Did they talk to a manager before they left?” SP: ” Well….no.” SM: “You’re fired.”
Over the years, through millions and millions of car deals, generating reams and reams of car deal data, it has been determined by car dealerships that it is more cost-effective to alienate 85 percent of the people who are “just looking” in order to sell to the other 15 percent who will finally give up and buy after several hours of ‘the process’. In other words, when you ask “where are the keys to my trade-in, I want to go home…”, what they hear is ” I need more convincing.”
When most people are asked for their opinion of car salesman, the answer is often an unbroken string of obscenities. Even kindly old Granny, sitting there knitting a sweater for her cat, will fire a burst of profanity that could make the most battle-hardened Marine queasy. This is the result of years of conditioned responses from both buyers and sellers. The ‘process’ is so contentious that many folks will keep their cars long after they no longer want them rather than venture on to a car lot.
The fact is that it is an invasive procedure by nature–this information-gathering and credit-worthiness-determining–and when folks become aware that their comfort zone has been violated, and the rules that they live by the rest of the time in their lives no longer apply, they become less honest and less straightforward, as a kind of defense mechanism.
In 80-90 percent of car dealerships today, the salesperson you meet on the lot is much more of a tour guide than was the plaid-jacket-striped-pants-white-shoes stereotype of yesteryear. In fact, the salesman on the lot is probably the only person who wants you to be successful more than you do! He is also the one guy who probably CAN’T sell you the car. He has absolutely no idea what they will sell the car for, what your interest rate will be, or how much you can expect for your trade-in.
In the age of specialization, this fellas function is to get you inside and sitting down. Period. There is a well-known car biz adage that you talk about cars standing up and money sitting down. Of course, this makes perfect sense on paper, but very often the customer is so wary and on-edge that it is a difficult hurdle, and often requires the gentle persuasiveness that ‘The Closer’ typically lacks.
Once you are sitting down, the next person you will meet is ‘The Closer’, and he does not really care what your kids are named or where you work, what your hobbies are or how long you have been married. He wants to know how much effort will be required to put the deal down so he can move to the next one.
The fella who greeted you on the lot, that “nice young man”? He is hovering in the background, hoping all goes well. He is rooting for you to hold strong, to not get tired, to be happy with the trade-in amount they offer. He wants you to be comfortable and he wants you to be able to afford the car, but most of all…most of all, he wants you to BUY, because somewhere in the back of the office, out of the sight of customers, there is a chalkboard or a variation thereof.
This board contains the names of all the salespeople and the sales they have made that month, and there is nothing he wants in this world, nothing he needs in this world, more than some “chalk”.
Overheard on car lots every single day, all across this great land:
Sales Manager: ” Where did those people go?” Salesperson: ” Which people?” SM: ” Those people that were back there checking out the (anycar).” SP: ” Oh, they said they were just looking.” SM: “Really. Did they talk to a manager before they left?” SP: ” Well….no.” SM: “You’re fired.”
Over the years, through millions and millions of car deals, generating reams and reams of car deal data, it has been determined by car dealerships that it is more cost-effective to alienate 85 percent of the people who are “just looking” in order to sell to the other 15 percent who will finally give up and buy after several hours of ‘the process’. In other words, when you ask “where are the keys to my trade-in, I want to go home…”, what they hear is ” I need more convincing.”
When most people are asked for their opinion of car salesman, the answer is often an unbroken string of obscenities. Even kindly old Granny, sitting there knitting a sweater for her cat, will fire a burst of profanity that could make the most battle-hardened Marine queasy. This is the result of years of conditioned responses from both buyers and sellers. The ‘process’ is so contentious that many folks will keep their cars long after they no longer want them rather than venture on to a car lot.
The fact is that it is an invasive procedure by nature–this information-gathering and credit-worthiness-determining–and when folks become aware that their comfort zone has been violated, and the rules that they live by the rest of the time in their lives no longer apply, they become less honest and less straightforward, as a kind of defense mechanism.
In 80-90 percent of car dealerships today, the salesperson you meet on the lot is much more of a tour guide than was the plaid-jacket-striped-pants-white-shoes stereotype of yesteryear. In fact, the salesman on the lot is probably the only person who wants you to be successful more than you do! He is also the one guy who probably CAN’T sell you the car. He has absolutely no idea what they will sell the car for, what your interest rate will be, or how much you can expect for your trade-in.
In the age of specialization, this fellas function is to get you inside and sitting down. Period. There is a well-known car biz adage that you talk about cars standing up and money sitting down. Of course, this makes perfect sense on paper, but very often the customer is so wary and on-edge that it is a difficult hurdle, and often requires the gentle persuasiveness that ‘The Closer’ typically lacks.
Once you are sitting down, the next person you will meet is ‘The Closer’, and he does not really care what your kids are named or where you work, what your hobbies are or how long you have been married. He wants to know how much effort will be required to put the deal down so he can move to the next one.
The fella who greeted you on the lot, that “nice young man”? He is hovering in the background, hoping all goes well. He is rooting for you to hold strong, to not get tired, to be happy with the trade-in amount they offer. He wants you to be comfortable and he wants you to be able to afford the car, but most of all…most of all, he wants you to BUY, because somewhere in the back of the office, out of the sight of customers, there is a chalkboard or a variation thereof.
This board contains the names of all the salespeople and the sales they have made that month, and there is nothing he wants in this world, nothing he needs in this world, more than some “chalk”.